Florida Pizza Is Better Than You Think

Jeff Berman has visited more than 500 pizzerias across the country. During one New York trip, he reached 53 shops and tried 70 slices in four and a half days.

Jeff is the founder of Pizza Lovers of Florida, a Facebook community that grew from a small Citrus County group to more than 5,000 members. He does not call himself a reviewer or influencer. He calls himself a pizza enthusiast.

In Episode 157 of the Pizza King Podcast, Jeff explains how he chooses which shops to visit, why he orders the pizza a shop is known for, and why one visit should not define a pizzeria. He also shares why he refuses to turn his passion into a business, how Florida pizza has grown, and what it takes to build a community where people can disagree without becoming disrespectful.

You will hear:
- Why Jeff protects pizza as a passion instead of a business
- How he planned a 53-pizzeria New York trip
- What first-time customers should order
- Why different pizza styles need different standards
- What makes a pizzeria worth recommending
- Why Florida deserves more respect as a pizza state
- How consistent work grew Pizza Lovers of Florida

Join Pizza Lovers of Florida:
https://pizzaloversofflorida.com/

Facebook group:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1355287455703996/

Visit the Pizza King Podcast:
https://pizzakingpodcast.com

Episode sponsors:
Edge Pizza Ovens: https://edgeovens.com/test-bake
Mailwise Solutions: https://mailwisesolutions.com. Pizza King Podcast listeners save $150.
Virnika AI: Save $500 on the first year of Agent Penny with no setup fee. Mention the Pizza King Podcast at https://virnika.ai/

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Transcript

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SPEAKER_00 1:12

I actually just came back last week from a tour uh in New York City where I went to fifty-three pizzarias, four and a half day, seven seventy slices, and uh and it was amazing. Best experience ever. A lot of press highly recommend it.

SPEAKER_01 1:24

A lot of pressure on me when I told my family that well, so I'm talking to you and you hit fifty-three pizzas in four days. Yeah. Well, thank you for uh for coming here. Absolutely, Daryl. Thanks for having me. This is uh, well, you can introduce yourself, tell us who you are.

SPEAKER_00 1:54

So I'm Jeff. Uh I run Pizza Lovers of Florida. It's uh a Facebook group. I would say I am a pizza enthusiast, someone who is just obsessed with pizza. Uh, I've been passionate about pizza ever since I was a little kid. Uh it's been an obsession of mine since childhood. I would say the past 15 months is when it went into kind of full circle of hey, pizza is every day, all day, um, of kind of exploring all over the state. And um, and yeah, it's been a fun time, fun journey so far.

SPEAKER_01 2:23

Is it is it literally every day, all day?

SPEAKER_00 2:26

So I would say in the past 15 months, there's been probably eight times that I haven't had pizza in any given day.

SPEAKER_01 2:35

So not just heading out to a pizza shop, you you make your own pizza at home.

SPEAKER_00 2:40

I make my own pizza at home, um, but I'm also a huge fan of leftovers, right? So if I go to a pizzeria and you know, I I favor slice shops. So if I'm going out on a pizza call, if I'm going out like to try a new area across Florida, I'm gonna go to a whole bunch of shops and favor slice shops. And a lot of the times, some places I want to go to don't do slices. Um, I'm gonna go take those leftovers, put them in one of my four deep freezers of the house, bring it to lunch the next day, reheat it on a little pizza pod, and uh, and uh, and yeah, that's pretty much been the process because I want to explore as many places as I can across the state, but it's not necessarily viable uh every day.

SPEAKER_01 3:16

A little bit of controversy over the last few weeks with the name change from pizza lovers of Citrus County, which is where the group started, to the uh the all-encompassing pizza lovers of Florida.

SPEAKER_00 3:28

Definitely a lot of controversy. So when I started the group, so I live in Citrus County, it's a small county. Um, Citrus County's got about, I don't know, 150,000 residents. And uh I live in a town called Homasasa. So when I first started it, uh I started the group, Pizza Lovers of Citrus County, that kind of have a vehicle for like-minded pizza fanatics, people who like pizza, people who maybe they're a homemaker and they want to learn tips. They want, and it would give me a platform to show my own pizza, learn from others, and then discover all the pizzerias across the county. And, you know, being a small county, we still had 30 or so independent pizzarias. And once I hit 5,000 members after 14 months or so, like it's probably time to grow because I'm already doing the whole across the state kind of platform now. Uh, so there was a little bit of a pushback for people that have been with me since day one that felt, hey, we're Citrus County. This is really where we should be kind of staying and showcasing. Where my response back was, look, I've always been across the state. I've always been trying to find that new, that new amazing pizzeria who's kind of elevating things, doing things differently. So I'm still in Citrus County, I'm still keeping it that community feel, still doing you know, monthly pizza crawls in Citrus County. Yeah. Uh, but definitely understand the uh the heartache there.

SPEAKER_01 4:42

What what made you start the group in the first place?

SPEAKER_00 4:46

So I would say being someone that's been an enthusiast about pizza, so you know, I'm not a reviewer, I'm not an influencer, I'm someone that truly is an you know a pizza enthusiast. Um, I've been making pizza pretty much most of my adult life as a hobby. Okay. So, you know, going back to 2013, I, you know, I had an little uni three pellet wood-fired oven. Um, and then that just gravitated over the years of hey, let's not buy the public stove and let's try buying Caputo at the local area. And pizza oven after pizza oven after pizza oven kind of just matured into, hey, this is kind of to get more um a little bit more skillful where I probably need to learn from others. So starting the group was really more, I need to learn from others. I want to find more people who make their own pizza, who want to go visit pizza places, but also the biggest aspect was community. Let's find people who want to link up and go try a pizza together.

SPEAKER_01 5:42

That's and that's what I think is really cool. I see the crawl. I've really got to make it to one of the crawls. But I think that's how not how I've how I well, I don't know. It's the timeline is a little bit weird because I remember, you know, a friend, a mutual friend telling me about you. But I think around that same time I had already started to follow the group or follow someone across. So it was like the I when I once the name and the everything kind of clicked, it was like, oh, I I know exactly who that guy is. He's uh you you do a lot when in what I like in is that you you you don't call yourself a reviewer, but you do give a very detailed, you know, recap of the visit so that if someone were to decide they want to try that experience, you you've given your point of view on it in great detail.

SPEAKER_00 6:27

Yeah, I would say the big thing that I, you know, when I first started uh the group, I actually developed a really advanced rubric that was like this objective assessment for how it would correlate to a score and do all these numbers and so forth. And I think that off-the-cuff subjective number scoring doesn't make a lot of sense in our in the industry at pizza. Um, but also every rubric ultimately goes back to the A Port No, right? He's kind of the authority at pizza when it comes to numbers, right? So I would put something like this place is at 8.5, and they're like, that's not an 8.5. Look at that score.

SPEAKER_02 6:59

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 7:00

Corey with what they would see, right? So I try to give my personal opinion objectively with, you know, they're using these ingredients, they're doing this long fermentation, um, it has this texture. So try to give some characteristics so people can formulate is this pizza for them or not.

SPEAKER_01 7:15

Does it do you get people that say, thank you so much? I was afraid to try that place, or I've been thinking about trying them, and that this helped me decide that I'm gonna go try a place.

SPEAKER_00 7:25

I I would say the the reception, you know, the receptiveness of my feedback has, I think, over the 15 months developed some level of legitimacy. I think people now will say, okay, this guy understands pizza. Um, he, you know, they they've a lot, they my views would probably align with their views over this duration. So there's been a lot of places where I'll post about and people will, hey, I tried that place, that place was amazing. Um, I went to this place, didn't even know about it. Uh so yeah, I I think it's been a good community for the owners to get identified that might not have been on the pizza map, so to speak. Um, and then for me to find that hole on the wall place that's really doing pizza right.

SPEAKER_01 8:01

Yeah. I I like that. But you you show some love to the chains when when when the time is right or when it's necessary. You're you're you're all inclusive when it comes to pizza.

SPEAKER_00 8:09

Yeah, 100%. I mean, I I don't think that any pizza's off uh off limits. I think there's a time and a place for any pizza. I mean, if I'm having a pizza party for the kids, I'm probably ordering dominoes. Right. Um, you know, obviously, you know, from a quality perspective, it's not gonna be at the same level as my favorite pizzeria, but it's efficient to order from, it's gonna deliver to the park, and the price is gonna be right.

SPEAKER_01 8:28

Heard that. Heard that. You said you've been making pizza your whole adult life. How did you find that passion?

SPEAKER_00 8:37

So passion for pizza literally goes to probably my earliest memory, right? Ever since I was a kid, as young as I was could possibly remember, Thursday night was pizza night. So, dad, you know, and come from a poor family, getting pizza on payday was kind of a big thing, right? So I developed a love for pizza coming from Massachusetts. Um, it was Greek style pizza. And when you live there, you don't know anything differently because it's house to pizza, house to pizza, house to pizza. It's all you know pan-cooked pizza. Um, I just developed that love really early on. And I'd go visit my grandfather. Um, hey, you want to order a pizza? Movie night, you know, go to the movies, go to Papagino's, and hey, let's get a pizza before the movies, go to pizza buffet, even McDonald's. I mean, the early 90s, McDonald's had uh all you can eat pizza for like two bucks as a kid. At McDonald's? At McDonald's, yeah. It was a regional thing that they started where I don't remember that one. Yeah, it was early 90s and it was dining and it was served table side. And you know, if you were a kid, it was $2, literally all you can eat pizza, uh, $3 for an adult. And like my entire 10 to 14 was like literally going to McDonald's for pizza.

SPEAKER_01 9:44

Dude, uh I you know what? I do remember seeing pizza at McDonald's in Canada back in the 90s. I don't remember, I don't think they it made its way to Michigan, though. Yeah, it was. But in mass they were doing it.

SPEAKER_00 9:56

It was a thing. It was a thing, and it was regionally selected, and uh, so yeah, all areas didn't have it. But yeah, I remember like as a kid for $2 for all you can eat pizza, it was awesome.

SPEAKER_01 10:05

So pizza is part of part of who you are, part of your identity growing up. It but you've never, you know, as as you are now, most folks start, they grab a Nunie, they start making pizza at home. Yeah, the the progression is I'm about to sign a lease or I'm about to get a food truck or and I'm about to lose all my love for this and start trying to make money with it.

SPEAKER_00 10:28

So I've actually intentionally safeguarded my passion by not going down that avenue. Um, I I I don't want to monetize my passion because I want it to stay my passion. I think when you try to, you know, profit off of something you love and it now becomes your required financial sustainment, that there's a risk of you might lose the love of it.

SPEAKER_01 10:48

You're probably gonna hate it at some point as soon as it doesn't work because it's you know, things are tough, right? Exactly. So with with that, I mean I'm sure you get a lot of you know, people who approach you and say, hey, look, let's do it together. Because I look at you and I see someone who does have passion for what you do and passion for pizza. You know and understand all of the components that it takes to make good pizza. It seems like a natural thing. And I trust your opinion more than I trust the influencers or the reviewers out there because I know that you know what you're talking about.

SPEAKER_00 11:19

There's definitely been people that have reached out, they've inquired about, you know, wanting to do partnerships, you know, whether it's on the financial backing or doing like some type of a split. But yeah, I I want to keep the financial side of the hobby very far away from from my passion. Because again, I wanted to, I want it to stay something that I enjoy doing, stay motivated about, and uh, and not get tied up with the with the with the financial side of it.

SPEAKER_01 12:39

But you you you also similar to you know the you know the owners and operators out there, you still follow the pizza world with the same amount of you know, the same amount of enthusiasm. I've seen you at Expo. We've seen I've seen pictures. I didn't see you in at the Florida show last year, but I seen pictures and from your point of view, you were really close to me somewhere very much so you know in the competition area.

SPEAKER_00 13:04

I love the industry, right? So I love the pizza Yolos that are doing pizza right. I love being industry adjacent, right? Um, so not directly in it myself where I'm making pizzas commercially, but I love the community. Yeah. So connecting with like-minded pizza owners, um, I I think it's fascinating. And I think one of my favorite parts about Expo or Pizza Tomorrow Summit is the competition aspect of it. Yes. Watching, you know, these masters of the craft make these amazing pizzas, and then as a spectac you know, spectator, it's it's a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_01 13:37

I actually enjoy that the most. I've never competed myself, but I try to find myself in that competition area every single time. Now that you've been uh not just all over the state, all over the country, um you've hundreds and hundreds of shops. I think last time I saw a read, it was over 500. So in is it's yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:56

So in Florida, it's about 325, but across the US, yeah, it's over 500.

SPEAKER_01 14:02

Are are there vast differences in what you see state to state like? Everyone's claiming to be the capital of pizza now, as if we need to take that crown from from New York, but Connecticut, New York, Detroit, Los Angeles is has really blown up on the pizza scene. Yeah, Pittsburgh. Like there's so many places now where you know folks are are really trying to stake their claim in pizza capital.

SPEAKER_00 14:27

Absolutely. So last year I went on a tour with Scott Wiener, who won Scott's Pizza Tours in New York. He's pretty much the authority on all things pizza. Legend. He's amazing. Uh, and then his friend Colin Kaplan runs Taste of New Haven. So they teamed up to do a specialty tour where they take the guys from New York City and they take a specialty tour over to New Haven for like a whole behind-the-scenes look of all things New Haven pizza, where you get to go to Sally's, Modern, Um, Zupparty's, Peppy's, uh, and then there was a couple other small those boss like uh Ernie's, which is Colin's favorite hometown place, and then Zanelli, which is an amazing Neapolitan place. And it was an amazing experience. Now, New Haven is identified as the pizza capital. Colin had actually a large play in that aspect. Um, obviously, they had political backing, which I think it's great, right? Anything that helps put pizza on the map, I think, is a great thing to do. Right on. Me personally, I think that great pizza is anywhere. So if do I see differences state to state? Sure, there's some subtle aspects that are different. Regional styles will play a big factor, but you can have the best pizza in Florida just like you can have the best pizza in New York. I actually just came back uh last week from a tour uh in New York City where I went to 53 pizzerias, four and a half day, 70, 70 slices, and uh, and it was amazing. Best experience ever. A lot of pressure highly recommended.

SPEAKER_01 15:47

A lot of pressure on me when I told my family that well, so I'm talking to you and you hit 53 pizzas in four days. Yeah. 53 pizzarias. Yes. We were there for three days and we went to five.

SPEAKER_00 15:58

Yeah, it was how did you do that? It was insane. So I had been planning it for a while. I had to figure out the logistics of like, okay, day one, I'm gonna do Long Island's in Queens. I'm gonna need a rental car directly from JFK once I land. I'll be able to hit about 12 places if traffic aligns. Day two, I'm not gonna need it because I'm gonna be in Manhattan, so I'm gonna do all things subway. Day three is the tour. Uh, I'm gonna you know finish up some shops in Manhattan, so jump on the subway. And then day four is gonna be all things Brooklyn and the Bronx. So, yep, let's get a rental car again. And then the next day was about a half a day, so hit up Staten Island and some other smaller places around Brooklyn. So, yeah, it was incredible. And luckily, I I had posted about it, and people were like, You're never gonna be able to hit that many places with with New York traffic, it's not gonna happen. The stars really aligned. Uh, I felt like the pizza gods were just looking out for me that day.

SPEAKER_01 16:49

Um, and it was it was an incredible like even the half day, you're like, Oh, I'm still gonna hit a few, even on the on the travel day.

SPEAKER_00 16:55

It was the travel day. I had a I think I got to LaGuardia at like 4 p.m. and you know, I ended up still hitting you know seven places that day.

SPEAKER_01 17:02

So uh yeah, it was fun. When you when you're walking into a shop, does there is there something in the slice case that jumps out for you, or are you usually going pretty basic? Yeah, that's a great question.

SPEAKER_00 17:14

So, you know, there's a lot of purists out there that will feel like if you're gonna review a pizza, you gotta give Scope a regular slice. You gotta go crust, sauce, cheese. I'm not that guy, right? Um, I want what that shop's known for. I want their owner's choice, what's their specialty? You know, that they have a hot honey burata with, you know, Ezo Pepperoni, um, or you know, some other wild creation that puts them on the map. Um, so yeah, for me, it's really what are they known for? Are they known for a grandma, a Sicilian, a facaccia, a New York, a Detroit, uh Roman? It's really what are they known for? I want that slice.

SPEAKER_01 17:49

You do pretty extensive research on the shops before you go to them.

SPEAKER_00 17:52

I typically like to, uh, because what I don't want to do, and I made this mistake several times on this past trip of getting the wrong slice, right? So, like Louis and Ernie's is a great example of I went there and I think I got there, you know, their their regular margarita slice or something. And they're like, you didn't get their sausage slice? That's what they're known for, right?

SPEAKER_01 18:11

Because they do the hand pull sauce.

SPEAKER_00 18:14

So there's definitely some areas where I want to make sure that I'm positioning myself to get the right slice. Um, another good example was Umbertos of New High Park. I have always been told that King Umbertos and Umbertos of New High Park, that's a grandma place. They help put grandma on the map, and they're like, you didn't get there Sicilian. Um, so yeah, definitely got to do research beforehand. If I'm only doing one slice at a respective slop, uh respective slot uh shop to get the right slice.

SPEAKER_01 18:39

Okay. Well, that that makes sense. And you want you want to make sure you give it the best have you want to have the best experience, but you also want to share the best experience. Um what I also like is that even when you're not, even when it wasn't the greatest in your opinion, you still openly and honestly share what you liked, what you didn't like, and never in a way to deter anyone else from trying a shop.

SPEAKER_00 19:03

Yeah, not at all. And you know, this past trip, you know, any shop can have an off day. Any shop can uh one of the things I identified, so my favorite pizzeria that I've ever been to historically was Lindistry. Right. Lindistry I think is amazing. I went to all three locations of Lindistry this past trip. So I went to the West Village location, got the fig ba fig jam and bacon. Um I went to their uh little Italy location, um, and I got their New Yorker.

SPEAKER_02 19:29

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 19:29

Uh and then I went to their Brooklyn location and I got their uh their Lindistry, which is Birata and prosciutto. And all three were very different. Uh so depending on who the pizza yolo is, who's making the pizza, there's going to be subtle differences. So any any shop can have an off day. Um I like to one, if I'm gonna make an assessment and it wasn't necessarily my favorite pizza or favorable, I gotta give them another try. I can't rule a place out on any one visit.

SPEAKER_01 19:53

Are is is Lindistry on the list every time you visit New York?

SPEAKER_00 19:57

So when this trip, Lindestry was probably my most excited place to visit. I would say, with my past experience, there's a couple of newer shops that I hadn't had before that are now on that list. So um there's a shop that I don't think gets much recognition called LTD. Um LTD to me is one of my favorites. And we have a shop here in Florida down in Fort Myers called Uncle Rico's. They are very, very similar. Really? Uh so Uncle Rico's to me is by far my favorite slice in Florida. After this current trip of trying all those amazing pizzeria, Uncle Rico's to me competes nationally. Anywhere is one of the best. So um Free Corn Second is another one that I absolutely thought was amazing.

SPEAKER_01 20:37

Another Florida connection.

SPEAKER_00 20:38

Yeah. So Jamie Cullaton owns um the Nona slice house in Safety Harbor. So when I first went there, I went there for uh one of their New York slices because they do different specials every day. And I thought it was good pizza. Then I realized, hey, they're known for Detroit style. Yes, that's their specialty. And I went there like mind blown, just the most absolute Detroit I've ever had. So Jamie um last year went to Manhattan, opened up a shop, Frico on second, and just has this most amazing Detroit style pizza I've ever had where it's different than Nona. It's elevated a little bit more. That's it's it's lighter, it's airier, it's super crisp. And um, and all the entire trip of all 50 three places I went to, that was actually my favorite slice.

SPEAKER_02 21:18

Really?

SPEAKER_00 21:19

And which people are like, Detroit style was your favorite slice out of every place in New York City. Surprisingly, yes.

SPEAKER_01 21:25

When Detroit's done well, it can it's it can be mind-blowing. But if it's heavy, if it's you know, if it's underfermented, then it then it's a different experience. But when they do it right, that's uh that's something we tried and we just can't do.

SPEAKER_00 21:37

Yeah, and I I think the other thing is, you know, people would be like, you know, what's your favorite pizza? And I think it's also important to distinguish like the category that it's in, right? Because I'm gonna have my favorite Roman, I'm gonna have my favorite New York, I'm gonna have my favorite Sicilian, I'm gonna have my favorite Detroit. There's a lot of different styles out there, so it's hard ranking different styles against other styles. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:57

Do you feel like you've been, and I and I've seen, you know, you know, in in the groups online or on Facebook where it's a common thing to bash pizza in Florida. It's huge. It's like everyone's bashing pizza. Florida. I see you stand up for Florida every time.

SPEAKER_00 22:12

I I try to. So, you know, I think Florida's come a long way in the past 10 years. Um, I think that people have a lot of misconceptions because when you think Florida pizza, they were probably thinking, okay, a local, a local pizza shop that wasn't trying, right? I think there's a lot of historical pizzerias that were just going through the motions. And um, there's a lot of work to do what people that are trying to elevate pizza, like you know, Vito Recia, who's probably one of the most foremost authorities on Roman pizza, is just doing amazing things, Rico of Uncle Rico's elevating like crazy, incredible pizza. So finding um those specific places, I think is helping putting Florida on the pizza map.

SPEAKER_01 22:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:50

I think that if you looked at it 10 years ago, Florida would not be a serious condemner for pizza. But after going to 325 places across the state, there's a lot of amazing pizza in Florida.

SPEAKER_01 23:02

Yeah. And not just in the places where you think, like, oh, well, of course, Orlando's gonna, you're gonna find something in Orlando or you're gonna find something in in Tampa, but even in in those small places, I mean, Vito's places in Port Charlotte. Like no one's visiting Port Charlotte. Like he's he, I don't even know why he's he doesn't even live in Port Charlotte.

SPEAKER_02 23:21

He doesn't, yes, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 23:22

But in in in that little town is is you know, one amazing pizza makers, not just him, but you know, Tim, the guys on the staff, they're all they're all really good, um, but they care and they work, they work really hard at their crafts. Um, I I love those guys because they're open and they're they're honest and they teach. And they're you know, Florida style pizza. I'm I'm all about it.

SPEAKER_00 23:45

Bella Napoli is an incredible pizzeria. Like you said, Tim, I first met him watching him at the Pizza Tomorrow Summit last year, watching him compete. I'm like, okay, who's this guy? That looks amazing. But they do the full spectrum of styles at that location. They're not doing styles. Yeah, they're not just doing one style. So, you know, Vito is a specialist for Roman. Um, but yeah, they do the full spectrum of of pizza. So it's a great place to go.

SPEAKER_01 24:04

We should You want to go take Vito's class at Pizza University? I would love to. That would be fun, right? I want to learn Roman style, and I think that'd be the best setting to do it, but I want to have fun like with people that I know and like friends.

SPEAKER_00 24:16

Vito is a great teacher. So Roman to me, and that so Roman's my favorite style of pizza, and it's also the style that I know the least amount about. Um, so it's something that I keep working at because it's a very, very hard pizza to master. Um, you have to handle it a very specific way. It's uh, you know, 80% plus hydration. Um, it's all about you know time, temperature, and technique. So it's something that if you're not a master of pizza, you're probably not gonna make a great Roman pizza. And that's something in New York I went to. I went to six different Roman.

SPEAKER_01 24:47

Yeah. That's uh that is a really tough one. And I was talking with Vito here. I'm like, dude, I've really been trying to figure out Fakasha. And he was like, I'll I'll figure out, I'll show you how to do, can you slow that oven down? Like, you know, we run a conveyor here. He was like, How how slow can you make that oven? And he's like working to help me figure it out here, even even in these conditions. He's uh he is a uh a pizza nerd, pizza scientist when it comes to uh really understanding Go and formulation.

SPEAKER_00 25:16

Yeah, not only is he a pizza scientist, he's very humble and he's a great teacher. Yeah, he's very much focused on, he wants people to learn. And the thing I like about people like Rico and Vito is they're gonna say, you know, there's no secrets in pizza. Yeah. They will literally tell you the recipe, they'll tell you what they're doing, how they're doing it, their ingredients. Uh, they're very transparent.

SPEAKER_01 25:34

Yeah, very, very good, very good guys. What are you uh what's your go-to to make at home?

SPEAKER_00 25:40

So surprisingly, uh last year when I went to Ceres, which I thought was a very amazing pizzeria in New York City, um, the guys there are chefs from you know 11th Madison Avenue. Um, so there's a lot of controversy with Ceres because my pizza was $68. Uh, so it's a very expensive pizza. But that made me fall in love with Induya, which is a very specialty sausage, yeah, almost like a pate. So induya um and burata has become like my thing to make uh and stracciatella. Uh either barata or stracciatella, I switch off. But yeah, that's that's literally become my go-to. Probably for the past year. If I'm making something for myself, that's my go-to. Nice.

SPEAKER_01 26:19

Do you have and I and I've seen your setup, you've got a few different ovens at this point, some some ma, some, some customizations. Do you do you prefer one bake over the other when it comes to for sure making at home? I mean, is it pizza steel? Is it is it uni?

SPEAKER_00 26:35

Is it yeah, definitely. So I have six pizza ovens. So, you know, I started with the Uni3, and then when they came up with the Coda 16, that was my, you know, okay, gravitating to that. And it's like the most modded onion or the most modded oven that exists. So it's got a custom rotator that was built for it. It's got a Boscado stone, uh, a hinge door, flame guards, temperature probe, uh, Wi-Fi controller for spinning it. So it's it's this cool oven, right? So if I'm making a Neapolitan or Neoneapolitan because of the Boscato stone, I can set it to 900 degrees and not worry about scorching it. Um, what I make most of is New York style. I make like a 20-inch New York style the Uni Coded 2 Max, it's this giant 24-inch oven, uh, which it's pretty economical. It's not a crazy expensive oven. I actually have two of those for pizza parties and whatnot. Uh, so that oven um is pretty much my go-to. And you know, it's 30 minutes ready to go. I know a lot of people will have like wood-fired pizza ovens, but the lead time for like a three-hour prep to make one pizza didn't really excite me that much. So and you know, I think there's a big push for people using pizza stones or pizza steels. Yeah, I have an 18-inch pizza steel as well, but the challenge with that is again, I gotta preheat the oven at 550 degrees. It's gonna saturate for over an hour. It's you know, in Florida, I don't want to turn on the oven for an hour plus, uh, and you know, AC, AC uh competing against it. So pretty much my go-to is gonna be the Unikota oven.

SPEAKER_01 28:02

Do you are you like, are the neighbors hitting you up for pizzas?

SPEAKER_00 28:06

So I would say last year I was heavily so one specific neighbor, um, and they're great. I was just bringing them pizza regularly. I think now my biggest thing is competing against time, right? So I'm balancing family time against my pizza adventures, against prepping and making my own pizza. So making my own pizza has definitely slowed as like I'm still trying to discover more and more pizzeria. Like just yesterday I went to discover two new pizzerias. Um, so I definitely want to get back into the routine of, hey, every week I'm making a pizza.

SPEAKER_01 28:36

Okay. How do you how do you decide where you go week to week?

SPEAKER_00 28:41

So that's a great question. Uh so when I first started, I developed this huge giant list of like a hit list of either somebody told me about a place or Google led me to it. Hey, this is a great place, or now I'd rather become people in the group that say, Hey, have you been to this place? Uh a great example that's become one of my favorite places in the state is by the chef. So by the chef pizza uh over in Lakeland is doing like a facaccia style, almost like a mama's two pizza. And it's uh it's very different than what pizzeria are typically doing, where you can't go there and be like, Oh, I want a pepperoni pizza. It's his chef's creation, his very specific specialty of you know what the options are. And you know, his background in pizza, like I mentioned about just coming off the New York tour, he started at Roberta's in Bushwick, which is a very renowned pizzeria in in New York, where he trained under, you know, Anthony Falco, known as Pizza Czar. He worked at Mama's too. So just a lot of background as this amazing pizza YOLO. And uh yeah, it's been incredible. Well, come on, come on.

SPEAKER_01 29:46

What you you wanna what are you looking for? Oh, I'm closed. It's Monday. We're closed on Monday. Come back tomorrow, come see me.

SPEAKER_00 29:58

Hey, that's good. You're in high demand. They come when you're closed.

SPEAKER_01 30:00

Yeah, I know someone was calling earlier. Can you lock that door? I knew she was gonna come in. Most times people open that door looking for the barber shop nigga. Okay, all the time, but I saw the money in her hand. She needs some pizza. We we may have to consider reopening on Mondays. I love it. So so yeah, Chef Peter, so he he does have great experience.

SPEAKER_00 30:20

He's he's incredible. I use he's one of my favorites, and every time I go there, it's just more impressed than the last time I was there. Just phenomenal, phenomenal pizza. And that came as a recommendation from the group? That was a recommendation from the group. Yeah. So, and and now it's the place that I'm recommending to everybody. It's like, hey, I don't care where you live in Florida, if you haven't been to Buy the Chef, go to Buy the Chef.

SPEAKER_01 30:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:39

That's how I feel about Uncle Rico's as well.

SPEAKER_01 30:41

Yeah, and and from your recommendation, we actually went to try it as well. And it was just, it was incredible. We were 4th of July, he was this kid right here was running a 5K down in Lakeland, like downtown Lakeland. And on the way home, I'm like, that's by the chef right there. And we went the next the next day and incredible pizza. Awesome Fakasha style, Detroit is something that blew my mind.

SPEAKER_00 31:06

It's very light, very crispy, very airy, uh, tons of flavor. Yeah, it's in front of the pizza.

SPEAKER_01 31:11

And it's funny because we had just I think maybe the week before, a couple of weeks before, we went to stage 201 in Plain City, stage 201, not too far from here in Plain City, and they have Fakasha sticks. Bread sticks. Delicious. And my wife's like, we gotta do more Fakasha. Yeah. More Fakasha still. And to have that pizza, right, you know, just a week or two later was like right on time. It's a it's like her new favorite, too.

SPEAKER_00 31:34

So that's a place that's actually on my list. Uh so that's a that's a must-visit type of place I haven't been to yet. And uh, and yeah, I got probably, I don't know, maybe a hundred places on my list that's like still a must-visit uh across the state. I like Miami. I haven't done any Miami area yet.

SPEAKER_01 31:50

So does it, does it have to, do you is there a criteria for recommendations? Does it have to hit your someone have to recommend it twice and then it makes the list?

SPEAKER_00 31:57

I typically have uh like no places off limits, but I favor, you know, some characteristics more than others. So like, okay, what are they doing? What are their ingredients? What's their process? Are they doing long fermentation? Um, you know, uh what's their differentiator? Are they using any specialty ingredients? What's their background? You know, have they competed in the past? Top of the list, right? Um, so there's a lot of characteristics that will favor my specific style or type, but anybody that's doing something different. So a great example is yesterday, I went to Muckey's in Newport Richie. Um, what put the differentiator for them is they're doing Old Forge. I don't know anybody in all of Florida that's doing an old forge style out of like northeast Pennsylvania. So yeah, yeah, it's like the only one in the state. So I'm like, that's interesting. Let's go try them out. And uh they do three different styles, Hand Toss Detroit, and Old Forge. Yesterday happened to be there Detroit style, where they do a different slice each day, and yeah, it was it was great.

SPEAKER_01 32:51

That is pretty cool. I I always wonder like what gives people the motivation to try something that's completely in the opposite direction of what folks are doing regionally or locally. Like, no, we're gonna we're gonna go Old Forge and just do our thing, or we're gonna go, you know, Chicago thin and just say, no, we're not doing because it's easy to open a New York, not easy to open a New York style, but that's usually your typical style when you're gonna open a pizzeria, but to do something totally different is pretty cool.

SPEAKER_00 33:20

I think that's pretty spot on. And I think the challenge with pizza yolos that are specializing in anything is will the demographics support it? Will they be receptive to it? So, like me, my favorite style is Roman. If you put Roman style out in Citrus County, they're not gonna know what that is. Yeah, you know, they're they're gonna be like, Where's where's my New York style? So um a great other example is you know, when I was in New York and I went to see Jamie and Frequan 2nd, and he is world class for Detroit. Frequent second is one of the best in the country for Detroit, and I'm in there, and it's person after person after person. New York Slice, New York Slice, New York Slice, New York Slice. And uh and it's challenging because it's like this is someone who's world-class, more you know, world stage competitor, and they don't get that people don't necessarily appreciate for what it is.

SPEAKER_01 34:04

Yeah, it unfortunately in this business, the the competition side of things doesn't always translate to having a you know a a successful not that obviously Jamie's very successful in, you know, two very successful shops, but for most folks, that's not always the that's not always the route, right? It's not at all. You know, you you do have to do what the neighborhood then you don't have to do what the neighborhood wants, but you have to put the work in to really get your product out there.

SPEAKER_00 34:31

Well, we talked about Vito before, and you know, Vito does all different styles and he's world class for you know his Roman style. He came in second place in Italy at the world's competition in previous years. And my understanding is he had a Roman uh you know slice shop in the past, and uh and uh my assumption would be, you know, yeah, did that region have a demand for that? Yeah. And I think it's coming back. I think that, you know, if you look at places like Sarasota, I think Sarasota is an amazing pizza community where you have places like Trollia, which was just Michelin selected, um, absolutely incredible Detroit, incredible Autisno Round, but then they also have Roman Square, which is again a Roman buy-the-slay shop, which is just phenomenal.

SPEAKER_01 35:10

I have to see that list. Like, where do you you keep it on your phone, like a run it a running list in your notes?

SPEAKER_00 35:15

So uh in Pizza Lovers of Florida on the Facebook group, if you actually click on featured, uh, I have a running list of like every single pizzeria that I visited with my assessment for it in each respective region. So um it's a it's a a long running, updated every single day of hey, you can go here and see what did I think about this pizzeria.

SPEAKER_01 35:35

Are you doing more work in pizza than you are at work at this point? So officially, no.

SPEAKER_00 35:40

Um so in my free time though, yeah, I definitely consume a lot of my free time in all things pizza. The group definitely consumes a lot of work, and I think that's one of the differentiators, right? Anybody can have a Facebook group and and uh and and expect it to grow, but if you gotta put in the work, you're gonna uh make sure that the content that's being put out is relevant to the people that want to consume it. But also, yeah, and visiting all these pizzeria, it's a it's a I don't want to say full-time job because I have a full-time job, but yeah, it's definitely a lot of work.

SPEAKER_01 36:06

You know what I like about you? You don't kick guys out for disagreeing with you. No, I I would kick them out.

SPEAKER_00 36:12

Yeah, it's it's funny because you know I I've had a few people in the group comment me on that, and it's like, why are you letting this person have a voice? I think it's important for people to be allowed to have their own opinions, but the biggest thing with my group is you got to be respectful. Right. Uh so that's one of the differentiators is look, you can disagree with me. You you might not think that what I like as a personal preference is the best pizza. That's great. You're allowed to have your own personal opinion. Just say something respectfully. Yeah. And uh, and yeah, but everybody gets voice, everybody has a voice.

SPEAKER_01 36:39

No disrespect, just keep it above board, and you have you're you're entitled to your opinion.

SPEAKER_00 36:44

Exactly. 100%. You want pineapple on your pizza? Have pineapple on your pizza.

SPEAKER_01 36:48

Don't tell George. Have you ever met George Clark?

SPEAKER_00 36:50

I haven't met him, so we recently connected um through through the Facebook group. I think he recently joined, and he's apparently like the edge oven wizard. Yeah. So it's like I want to try his pizza. So, you know, my friend Brian of Rose City, I believe George helped set him up. So when I was at, so like to me, there's always been the connotation of, yeah, a conveyor oven cooked on the screen. That's not gonna be an inferior pizza. Brian changed my perception of conveyor ovens when his pizza, in my opinion, was one of the best I had at Xbox.

SPEAKER_01 37:20

Brian's a lote pizza is probably one of the best pizzas I've ever had in my life. Exactly. And and now that you say that, I know exactly how I met you. Brian sent me, he goes, T, you need to have Jeff on your podcast. Oh, that's awesome. That's so I met I met Brian at Pizza Expo a few years ago, and then I interviewed, or I interviewed he came on the podcast, we did a remote, but then I went to the shop when I went to speak at the California show. Brian is the nicest guy in the business.

SPEAKER_00 37:47

The nicest guy in pizza. You cannot meet a more friendly, charismatic, personable guy who's just an awesome person to pizza.

SPEAKER_01 37:54

Yeah, he is a great person. Great energy. So I I went to his shop and I had to try some some pizzas. He went viral with his um his berea pizza and his and I had to try the elote. And Brian is awesome, but that's what happened. Brian sent me like a post or something. He goes, You need to talk to Jeff. He is he knows more about pizza than anybody.

SPEAKER_00 38:14

You know what's cool is I actually met Brian when I went out to New York last year and I went on one of Scott's pizza tours. It was him and his mom on the tour. Brian was there with his mom on the tour, and they flew up to go on the tour, and uh, and it was incredible. And we just started chatting, and I'm like, okay, this is a cool guy. And uh, you know, we you know, the way Scott does his tours is every Sunday bus tour will start at Castet, Roberto's uh Roberto's Neapolitan Place, and uh and yeah, just got to chat and talking pizza.

SPEAKER_01 38:40

Good dude, good guys. It's it's funny how you know worlds just connect it that way. Absolutely. Worlds just connect and and you know, Scott's a great guy for bringing people together too. I was doing an interview at Expo in you know in Vegas this year, and you know, who just pops into the screen and gives gives I was talking to um to Vito from uh Angel City Pizza in LA, and Scott just comes up, gives him a big old hug. He's like, like this dude, he he knows everybody and everybody loves him.

SPEAKER_00 39:08

Yeah, Scott is the most energetic, charismatic, awesome person. Again, I talked before he's the authority of pizza, but like he does a lot for the pizza community. He's a big player in all things expo. He also runs a great charity called Slice All Hunger Hunger. I'm a pizza partner. And um, you know, right now they have uh obviously initiative going on for pizza majors to support that um to help with food insecurity. So yeah, he's just a great guy doing great things for pizza. I'm actually going actually on one of his tours, um, obviously Pizza Expo Columbus. I'll be there for one of his pizza tours around the Columbus area. But in November, I'm actually going on one of his specialty tours to Naples, Italy for a week-long adventure. So I can't wait for that. That's gonna be cool.

SPEAKER_01 39:46

I saw he re-released, he had a few copies left of the book. Did he did you get, were you able to get one?

SPEAKER_00 39:51

Um, for his his own uh personal book. I've actually had a signed on before. I already had it.

SPEAKER_01 39:58

I'm like, man, I need to I need to get my hands on that.

SPEAKER_00 40:00

Yeah, it's uh his his pizza box collection is just amazing. And uh hopefully one day I'll get to go to a storage locker and check it out. So Naple, you got Naples, Italy coming up. Yeah, that's a big trip. That is a big trip. Um, that's gonna be, you know, it's a very specialty. It's coordination with Culinary Backstreet. So he partnered with them where it's this curated week-long tour where you stay in this 16th-century hotel and it's chartered where you're doing all these behind-the-scenes aspects where you know you Enzo Cochio, you're gonna make pizza with the pizza master over there. You gotta go to, you know, all the ancient see the ancient ovens from Naples. I believe we go to the Caputo factory and olive oil factory. I mean, it's just these amazing day-by-day adventures that you would never be able to go if you just went to Naples on your own.

SPEAKER_01 40:44

Yeah. That's wow, it's gonna be so much fun. Can't wait. That's gonna, yeah, that's a like a life uh like a bucket list trip right now.

SPEAKER_00 40:51

It's definitely a bucket list trip for sure.

SPEAKER_01 40:53

Oh man. What um what are you looking forward to? Like, is there anything that's at the high on your list in Florida that you haven't seen yet, or any regions or cities that we really haven't the biggest region that I'm most excited about that I haven't yet been to is Miami.

SPEAKER_00 41:09

So Miami is well known as a really big pizza scene. You know, obviously 50 Top comes out, there's multiple places on if I'm Miami that are on 50 Top across multiple different styles. Yeah, so I have put a crawl together, uh self-hosted crawl, for quite some time now. It's just finding two days to go down there and try the 20 plus places I want to go to. But yeah, Miami's probably number one on the regions that I need to go to next.

SPEAKER_01 41:30

There's a few I want to hit down there too. Um, you got pizza scene on the list, Chef Hector. I'm gonna I'm gonna show you some of his stuff. He's a he's a competitor, him and his daughter both compete. Okay, and uh they do some pretty cool stuff over there too. Awesome. Um, that's a that's gonna be a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_00 41:49

Yeah, I I can't wait, you know. And like I mentioned before with the Pizza Lovers of Florida group, I do a pizza call, you know, every month. Um so far it's really primarily just been doing Citrus County. I've done Marion County, I've done Hernando County. Um actually this coming this coming week I'll be doing my first 24 person call, which logistically is gonna be interesting because I don't have a bus like Scott has with his tours. Uh so it's pretty much, hey, it's your own transportation.

SPEAKER_02 42:16

Everybody's on their own.

SPEAKER_00 42:17

I didn't really think through the logistics of we're gonna have 24 people go to a pizzeria. Parking scene might be pretty interesting, but um um, but yeah, that's gonna be a really fun theme where you go to four different pizzeriaas, everybody gets to get everybody gets a slice at each pizzeria. You know, I usually give a Trotsky where a pizza uh bracelet or a pizza pin, and then they do a rating sheet. I'll hey, what did you think about each pizzeria? And then I usually put uh a consolidated, you know, review of what everybody thought for that call.

SPEAKER_01 42:43

I like it. Do you in doing this and seeing literally over 500 shops? You've seen good, you've probably seen not so good, you've probably seen this is okay now, but this probably won't do well, you know. I don't know how long this is gonna last. I you know, it's a it's a unique perspective, right? And do people ask for your opinion?

SPEAKER_00 43:06

Very much so. So, you know, in my area, I think from the group, uh I think I wouldn't say that I'm a respected opinion, but there's been plenty of times pizzeria owners that are looking at opening up, they say, Hey, can you come for a soft opening? Can you come and try it out and give me a thought? And my big thing is transparency, right? I I I don't want to give a false narrative where I say, Oh, that pizza was amazing just because I know you, right? So there's been pizzeria that I think are pretty prestigious that I'll give objective assessments on regardless, because I think transparency is important. But there's definitely been plenty of times where I've given feedback objectively and they've changed for the better.

SPEAKER_01 43:40

Yeah, I th I think that's important because you have insider knowledge, but you're also the ultimate consumer. Absolutely. So that that's that's pretty cool. How do folks um join the group? And at this point, the group has folks from all over, not just Florida, Citrix County, people from all over the country that are you know have joined the group. How do how does someone connect it?

SPEAKER_00 44:01

Absolutely. So uh right now the group, it's uh it's a Facebook platform, it's an open group, it's not private, so anybody can participate. Um, but yeah, you literally go to the group, click join, and you're and you're a member, and you can participate in pizza crawls uh join whenever they post them and uh talk about all things pizza. Obviously, you know, being pizza lovers of Florida, the focus is gonna be all things Florida pizzeria's.

SPEAKER_01 44:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:21

Um, but yeah, everybody's welcome.

SPEAKER_01 44:23

Yeah, very, very cool group. Now, like, I mean, there's a lot of groups out there. There's there's never any negativity in the group, which I love. Everyone supports, you know, even if I post a pizza here, it's like, oh that, where'd you get that? Did you make it? You know, where's your shop? So like there's just love there, and I and I appreciate that.

SPEAKER_00 44:41

Yeah, I I think that's probably the biggest differentiator, right? Because like I'm not gonna say, you know, Pizza Holics, it's 450,000 members, right? It's probably the number one pizzeria group that's gonna be.

SPEAKER_01 44:50

Yeah, but shop owners don't post in pizza holics because you know you're gonna get eaten up.

SPEAKER_00 44:53

They don't. That is a very polarizing group, and there's a lot of a lot of hate. So you're gonna have really, really thick skin if you're gonna post uh in that group. But yeah, my big thing is if you're gonna post, you know, anybody that has an opinion is welcome to that opinion. And uh the biggest thing is yeah, just be friendly, be a nice person.

SPEAKER_01 45:11

I love it. Go go join a group. We also got them active on Instagram a little bit now too.

SPEAKER_00 45:17

Just recently started, you know, it's funny when I was at Pizza Expo, you know, they did a um, they actually did a seminar on social media. Uh huh. And uh it was actually um, you know, the the guys that are pretty well famous, like Dojo. Yeah, Dojo and Dotoli. And uh their father actually um has a pizzeria that's gonna be opening up in my county shortly. Nice, uh Jay's Pizzeria. And uh their feedback was pretty much like, you know, I think I made a comment about Facebook, and like everybody kind of like laughed, right? Facebook's the antiquated platform, and you know, I've been an uni fanatic for a long time now, and I reached out to them. I actually got to meet Christoph at at Expo, super nice guy, and I think Uni is an amazing company. And I was talking to them, hey, what's the process to become an Uni ambassador? And it's pretty much so, hey, do you have YouTube, do you have TikTok? And uh everything but Facebook, everything but Facebook, very congested segment.

SPEAKER_01 46:08

So Facebook still works though, because yeah, pizza eaters, pizza buyers, and consumers are still on Facebook, and it's still a great way to connect with a business. Um the other platforms don't necessarily have that same type of interaction, it's not built around community the way Facebook is. So I think look, man, it works.

SPEAKER_00 46:29

Hey, for you know, uh a Facebook group in a very small county to grow over 5,000 members in a year. Uh definitely didn't expect that. I'm like, oh, maybe I get a couple hundred people to join. And uh yeah, it's been a wild ride. And I think it's been a great community. And uh yeah, my favorite part is actually the community aspect where people will literally meet up at pizzeria so people will go try um the local pizzarias, and it's uh a big difference from all the other groups out there. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:53

Well, very cool. I'm glad I'm glad you did it. Glad that I've you know finally got a chance to meet you. Well, we met earlier this year in Vegas, but uh yeah, man, I'm looking forward to see the group continue to grow, seeing you expand. It's gonna be pizza lovers of America here in about a year or so, and hopefully no one is too upset about that.

SPEAKER_00 47:13

Um we'll we'll definitely see, but yeah, just definitely enjoying the ride for sure.

SPEAKER_01 47:17

I will uh I will be in Columbus too. I'll have to figure out a way to you know get some uh get some content or do something.

SPEAKER_00 47:25

You're doing a crawl with Columbus is gonna be great. So uh we talked about George uh from you know Clark and uh he actually already sent me a list of like, hey, you know, these are these are all the great places around the Columbus area. So I'll definitely be doing a self-crawl as well as going on Scott Scott's tour as well. Yeah, absolutely. Uh, you know, it's always a good time. And uh, you know, we also have Pizza Tomorrow Summit. That's gonna be coming up as well. So end of uh end of October.

SPEAKER_01 47:56

Come meet Jeff. He's gonna be there. He's gonna you're gonna see him because he's gonna have a pizza back here. He's gonna have pizza shoes, right? He's gonna he's going to be in you know, well fitted in uniform. So thank you, my friend. This is really good. I appreciate you. Absolute pleasure. Looking forward to uh to doing more. Let's go make uh let's make a pizza.

SPEAKER_00 48:15

Let's do it.